We have just left sky which was FTTP. Open reach have just been out sent by Now who say I can’t have FTTP and only FTTC with copper from the cabinet to the house. I don’t understand as they are the same company, is this right?
thanks
Do you have an openreach ONT? or just a normal phone socket?
I have the open reach ont and the phones socket
Now don't currently do FTTP, what made you think they did?
I'm guessing it could be due to how fibre is allowed to be marketed in the UK thanks to offcom there's plenty of confusion out there about what fibre is.
It should be
Fibre from the modem at the distant exchange ( dial up)
Fibre to the exchange (adsl)
Fibre to the cabinet (vdsl, what the lines of now use)
Fibre to the mast/transmitter (Wimax)
Fibre to the node
Fibre to the premises/home
Hence the question about if an ONT is present, or would have been better to ask where and how the previous modem/router plugged in
@chilli2 wrote:I'm guessing it could be due to how fibre is allowed to be marketed in the UK thanks to offcom there's plenty of confusion out there about what fibre is.
It should be
Fibre from the modem at the distant exchange ( dial up)
Fibre to the exchange (adsl)
I think you are a little confused, there is no fibre involved in either of those. They are both copper all the way.
@chilli2 wrote:Hence the question about if an ONT is present, or would have been better to ask where and how the previous modem/router plugged in
The OP said he was on Sky which was FTTP, therefor they have to have an ONT. Whether the original master socket is still there depends on what was done when it was installed.
@Jayach wrote:
I think you are a little confused, there is no fibre involved in either of those. They are both copper all the way.
Dial up: at your end You have a device that modulates and demodulates a digital signal into audio noises which are on the same wavelength as voice signals travel on, called a Modem. these noises represent the 1's and 0's of binary code - in other words data. This device will dial a number which would be one for a dial up internet server ( that unless being used for point to point communication ie not the internet) this phone cal made on the copper cables l made by the modem or for the modem would end up at another modem owned/operated by your internet service provider which in turn would be connected to the ISP's point of presence (POP) which in almost all cases would be a Fibre optic cable
ADSL - aka Broadband, ADSL stands for Asymetric Digital Subscriber line. again you will have a modem recently these eventually became multi function devices incorporating amongst other things, a wifi access point, a router, Ethernet switch and firewall etc, and are commonly called routers.
The modem part of this operates at a higher frequency than voice signals so it can be transmitted along the copper cables without interfering too much with voice data , however minor issues can be caused with traditional voice services - hence the addition of micro filters to block out any effects of the high frequency - should be out of the range of human hearing noises.
The higher frequency means that much more data can be transmitted but it wont travel as far as a voice signal - so the Fibre optic cable terminates that the telephone exchange in a device called a DSLAM (Digital Subscriber Line Access Modulator)
VDSL: also known as FTTC ( Fibre to the Cabinet). VDSL stands for Very high bit rate Digital Subscriber Line
As the frequency is higher than that used with ADSL then more data can be transmitted, down the copper cable however the higher the frequency means the distance has to be shorter so to achieve that the DSLAM is moved to a street cabinet and form there fibre optic cable to the exchange and back to the ISPs point of presence - other variants of this also exist but are rare in the UK such as Fibre to the Node (FTTN) but with ADSL/VDSL the last hop to a property is almost always on a copper cable
other technologies such as Gfast are a variant of this using even higher frequency ranges
Fibre to the Premises/fibre to the home - this brings the fibre cable right to the property and cuts out any interference/degradation issues with the above
A few years back Offcom received a complaint that people were being deceived by ISPs marketing FTTC as Fibre it was decided that as fibre is involved somewhere in the chain then it can be marketed as fibre , by the same logic then dial up is also Fibre as a fibre optic cable is involved somewhere in the chain.
The end result is now that real Fibre is with us people are confused and who can blame them?
Its a complex mix of technologies, acronyms and none of it is made easy when coupled with marketing terms .
So thats the reasoning behind asking the OP what they plugged their "boxes " into and testing the water if they know what an ONT is - another clue would be asking what package/speeds they were getting with their previous provider - Sky
When I read you original list I thought by dial up you meant calls, I had forgotten about dial up modems.
Still either way neither of those become fibre until after they reach the exchange, and back in the day there was not much fibre even in there.
Also (as far as I know) ADSL still goes goes all the way to the exchange over copper. The name fibre broadband did not come into general usage until Fibre to the Cabinet (FTTC) and VDSL came along. I agree when Fibre to the Premises (FTTP) arrived they should have given FTTC a more suitable name, but every body was used to it by then, so it was considered confusing if they changed it.
@chilli2 wrote:So thats the reasoning behind asking the OP what they plugged their "boxes " into and testing the water if they know what an ONT is - another clue would be asking what package/speeds they were getting with their previous provider - Sky
The OP said:
@Mushy wrote:We have just left sky which was FTTP. Open reach have just been out sent by Now who say I can’t have FTTP and only FTTC with copper from the cabinet to the house. I don’t understand as they are the same company, is this right?
So I think they are more than sure about what they have.
Hi mate, yeah your right. My ont and master socket are next to each other. When we changed from sky to now, they changed the fibre from the exchange to the house via ont to the copper line to my master socket
I'm surprised Openreach actually allowed the FTTC to be used, seems a retrograde step.
Where it isn’t actually Copper Stop, this still goes on.
I don’t think there is any copper on the trunk lines out of any exchange any more.
Fibre To The Cabinet was an important stepping stone because previously you were limited by your distance from the Exchange, and it did away with that.
But now we have Fibre To The Property, we need a new name for FTTC, and I would suggest Hybrid Fibre, by analogy with Hybrid Electric Cars.
In Spain, our ISP would have laughed at ONTs. We had Fibre To The Router; literally, the fibre cable running along the wall and going directly into a router that did everything. OpenReach would have had nightmares if they had seen it….
l’m pretty certain I could plug my old 56k modem into my digital voice adapter and use it as if I was on a copper line, if only there was something out there still listening for dialup.Or does the ADC/DAC conversion going on only fool human ears? 😛
@RoyB wrote:l’m pretty certain I could plug my old 56k modem into my digital voice adapter and use it as if I was on a copper line, if only there was something out there still listening for dialup.Or does the ADC/DAC conversion going on only fool human ears? 😛
I'm pretty sure you couldn't. The analogue modem signal wouldn't like being digitised. It will be using frequencies outside the normal human voice.
But as you say there's not really any way to test it.
If modems strayed very far from the range of the human voice, then likely the telephone system wouldn’t accept them. Or even telephone handsets. Remember acoustic couplers?
I was production planning electric train sets and racing car sets in APL on a big Boeing mainframe over one of those in 1978.
But I do recall, a few years later, that when I tried to record programs for my Sinclair Spectrum on a HiFi VCR instead of a cassette deck, they wouldn't load back, though they were fine on a markedly inferior non-HIFi VCR. To my ears, the beeps and boops sounded exactly the same, but the Spectrum didn’t think so.
(Don’t ask me why I was doing that, though: idle curiosity, or trying to save on cassette deck batteries, or some such 😛)
Because it’s basically sky. The router is by sky, I get sky call centres calling me to confirm NOW install dates etc and when I was with sky it was fttp. Just thought it was strange they didn’t.
Recently an Open Reach contractor laid fibre cables in our area and fitted new boxes at various points. Some neighbours who are Sky or BT customers have had fibre lines connected from box to their house. We still have copper. We have one of these new boxes within 10 metres of our house, but as I understand it, NOW will not sanction or undertake this work. I was hoping that as I am paying for Super Broadband (63mbps) they would.
Can anyone tell me different?
Yes, different. Now don’t do FTTP . Now Broadband is selling into a vanishing market, in which even Openreach won’t do FTTC in many areas any more, and even in FTTP areas where they do, people are feeling short-changed that they can’t have FTTP.
Though if you are happy with 63Mbps, and don’t have line issues, why would you want FTTP?
We have 500Mbps FTTP, and we get 350 in the lounge and study. But only 69 in the back bedroom; and yet there’s no compromise in the service there. If it mattered, maybe if I wanted to game in there, I could ask BT for a mesh repeater or two, which would be free to borrow, but I don’t.
I am not getting the 63mps as I hoped I would, if I signed up to Super Broadband as I did earlier this year, but 36mbps. I was aware that Open Reach were to lay fibre cables to our street, so I thought I would sign up and pay for 'Super' in readiness for it. I was not aware that NOW would not connect it to our house. It appears I am stuck with NOW until the end of my contract.
As a matter of interest, do Now state in their advertising, they will not connect to property?
What minimum speed did Now guarantee? If you aren’t getting it, get onto Now Broadband Support and have it looked at:-
As regards plans ‘Fibre’ on its own is FTTC, which even BT still offer where they can, and FTTP is known as ‘Full Fibre’.
I cannot find FTTC on the Now website - a search on Help reveals no hits. Oddly, FTTP gets 171 hits, but I can’t find the term in any of the handful of most promising entries I looked at.
You might want to ask Now if they will release you from your broadband contract (and they will have no choice if they try and fail to get you the promised speeds) so you can go somewhere you will get the promised speeds of FTTP. Or at least let you move to Sky without penalty, so you can have their FTTP.
But I do wonder how long Now can go on without offering FTTP?
Their network is Sky, and Sky have it, so it should be easy.
Thanks for the response.
In all honesty I am getting 36mbps which is more than the 32mbps I was guaranteed at the time of signing up. I found that acceptable as at that time there was no existing fibre Superfast cable laid on our street. I knew it was to happen in late spring so I elected to pay for the Super Broadband, thinking wrongly that NOW, being owned by Sky, would connect to my house. I would imagine that NOW would be silly not to offer a fibre line connection service as a lot of existing customers will consider leaving.
@Grumpyfrog wrote:
thinking wrongly that NOW, being owned by Sky, would connect to my house. I would imagine that NOW would be silly not to offer a fibre line connection service as a lot of existing customers will consider leaving.
Unfortunately, making assumptions without doing the necessary research, is always dangerous.
At least with Now it's only a 12 month contract, so it won't be too long before you can leave, (unless you can convince them to let you leave early, as they are unable to supply the same service as other ISP's)