Now (Sky) PSTN LLU shutdown

[greyeyes]

All the talk surrounding the 2025 PSTN shutdown is centered around BT.

There has been no mention of a date for Now/Sky LLU openreach exchange customers that i'm aware of.  My mother has Now broadband (VDSL) & Now PSTN line.

She's has asked me how that affect her, anyone had this conversation with Now/Sky for existing customers?

[greyeyes]

@chilli2 

I wanted my number, but had to leave plusnet to keep it, with FTTP i'd lose it... moving to another VSDL provider meant transferring the number linked to the line, i had to look at companies using non openreach infrastructure, i happen to be sitting not too far from a 3 5G mast, i gave that a try... sit on average around 330/350mbps down 22/25mbps up (could put the router in the loft and get faster).

3 do contract or go via the monthly rolling for £25/mon, that can help you make the switch (check coverage)

Andrews and Arnold were the VoIP company at £1.44/mon plus £15 port, that went smoothly and closed my VSDL down at the same time.   I'm still on 3 5G.. i was expecting dropouts... with remote working i can stay connected for hours, no drop outs.  Been on it almost a year now.

I have a Grandstream HT801 connected to switch, the switch to a mains home plug on a mains wired network around the house (multi work from home rooms) to the router in another room via home plug, you wouldn't know it was 5G, you'd think you were on FTTP on an ethernet network.

[RoyB]

@greyeyes 

“The PSTN supports a number of Openreach wholesale products including: Wholesale Line Rental (WLR3), Integrated Services Digital Network (ISDN 2 and ISDN 30), Local Loop Unbundling Shared Metallic Path Facility (LLU SMPF) and Sub-Loop Unbundling Shared Metallic Path Facility (SLU SMPF), Narrowband Line Share and Classic products.   When the PSTN is switched off these products will no longer be available.’

https://chilterntelecom.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/BT-ISDN-Switch-off-FAQs.docx

‘What other lines and calls services are impacted by the 2025 closure? 

The Public Switch Telephone Network currently supports WLR, ISDN2 and ISDN30, Local Loop Unbundling Shared Metallic Path Facilities (LLUSMPF), Narrowband Line Share and Classic Products. This will in addition affect products such as Asymmetrical Digital Subscriber Lines (ADSL) Broadband and Fibre to the Cabinet (FTTC) Broadband. This is because the underlying line product is being withdrawn, therefore there is no underlying WLR telephone service to support the broadband.’

https://chessict.co.uk/blog/pstn-switch-off-in-2025-faqs/

I daresay if we dug deeper we could even find Openreach saying these things; anybody like to try?

[greyeyes]

@RoyB BT/Plusnet are not offering VDSL & PSTN for the existing copper line to my house as a new customer (stopped Sept 2023).

Now is offering VDSL & PSTN as they haven't introduced a stop sell, still as of today, just checked.

Yet, not a word from sky/now on this.

[RoyB]

@greyeyes 

Now can offer VDSL and PSTN  because your local exchange has Sky LLU equipment in it, so Now can still obtain MPF (Metallic Path Facility) for the copper from your cabinet copper termination to the LLU equipment in the exchange. And indeed, Now are not set up to offer any service without this, apart from the Sky FTTP they have just started reselling.

BT/Plusnet are still offering copper to the cabinet in those places they can’t offer FTTP (and indeed in some places where they could), but are no longer offering anyone the onward copper to the exchange. Even if such copper already exists, and is available.

Some would say, since we see from my above posting that even LLU PSTN will go in 2025,:that Now are just kicking the VoIP can down the road; it has to come sooner or later, so why not sooner?

[Jayach]

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@RoyB wrote:

Now are just kicking the VoIP can down the road; it has to come sooner or later, so why not sooner?

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Because they would have to supply a different router or add an ATA?

[RoyB]

@Jayach 

Indeed yes, that’s the technical answer. I was probably groping for the commercial answer.

[Jayach]

@greyeyes 

I honestly don't think Sky/Now have made any comment on how long they will support PSTN (POTS) connections via LLU.

Sky themselves don't put anyone on their LLU/PSTN as all new customers use digital voice on both FTTC and FTTP. (as far as I know)

So it's appears to be just Now that still makes new PSTN connections via the LLU equipment in the exchanges.

Whether they will still support exiting customers after 2025 (which is said to be when the Openreach/BT PSTN will be switched off) I don't think has been stated.

So, basically, I doubt anyone can actually answer your query.

[RoyB]

@Jayach 

I thought I answered it unequivocally above 😢

https://community.nowtv.com/t5/Setup-Performance/Now-Sky-PSTN-LLU-shutdown/m-p/619620/highlight/true...

Can you see a flaw in the information provided (out of date, maybe), or my interpretation of it?

[Heinstein]

@RoyB 

I'm looking at what Openreach says here: https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/products/the-all-ip-programme/stopsell-updates

Specifically, "The WLR Stop Sell rules do not restrict the provision of MPF, or MPF + FTTC (including Gfast), which may still be ordered"

So, I'm reading that as saying that Sky (and other LLU suppliers) can continue to supply an analogue phone service over copper after Stop Sell is in place as long as they do so via Openreach's MPF product.   For the avoidance of doubt, note the SMPF product is withdrawn as part of Stop Sell.

My opinion is that at some point Openreach will withdraw the MPF product as they'll want to remove copper lines and close exchanges where the LLU equipment sits.  We just don't know when that will be.

It seems to me that an analogue phone service will continue to be available from Now until either Now choose not to offer it for commercial reasons or they are forced to withdraw it because Openreach will no longer provide them with the MPF product.

Of course, I could be wrong! 😀

[greyeyes]

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@Heinstein wrote:

So, I'm reading that as saying that Sky (and other LLU suppliers) can continue to supply an analogue phone service over copper after Stop Sell is in place as long as they do so via Openreach's MPF product.   For the avoidance of doubt, note the SMPF product is withdrawn as part of Stop Sell.

My opinion is that at some point Openreach will withdraw the MPF product as they'll want to remove copper lines and close exchanges where the LLU equipment sits.  We just don't know when that will be.

It seems to me that an analogue phone service will continue to be available from Now until either Now choose not to offer it for commercial reasons or they are forced to withdraw it because Openreach will no longer provide them with the MPF product.

Of course, I could be wrong! 😀

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My mother doesn't have FTTP available, i do on my pole... both of us appear to be on Now/Sky LLU pole, i can still get what she has as a new customer of Now... however, BT/Plusnet have a stop sell (from Sept 2023) and only FTTP is available.

As you've said, It's pretty much how i've been reading is, otherwise an announcement would have been made.  She's had nothing via email from them.. to her it's a BT line.... she keeps hearing all the BT news and wonders how it impacts her.

I guess it's a case of no news is good news until otherwise told.