Latest update removing dev mode

[Anonymous User]

Originally by JaBuzzard: (Post 1 page 49)

SeeMoreDigital wrote:
What???

A NOW TV branded box retails at just £15. 00. The Roku boxes cost signi��cantly more! Somebodies
taking a hit for the differences!

Yes Roku are not making a pro��t. There is a large difference between zero pro��t and a subsidy. The bill
of materials for a NowTV box is most likely well under £15, and my bet is most of the NowTV boxes sold
are not the £15 ones either , because wait a bit and you can get one with a pass for the same amount of
money or even less, to the point where people who never sideloaded anything have draw fulls of the
boxes, because even an offer of £20 for a box with a 3 month entertainment pass (and there have been
lots of better offers) is cheaper than buying three months of passes which would cost you £21 and you
get a spare remote too.

Originally by Wufflebonk: (Post 2 Page 49)

jabuzzard wrote:
SeeMoreDigital wrote:
What???

A NOW TV branded box retails at just £15. 00. The Roku boxes cost signi��cantly more!
Somebodies taking a hit for the differences!

Yes Roku are not making a pro��t. There is a large difference between zero pro��t and a subsidy. The
bill of materials for a NowTV box is most likely well under £15, and my bet is most of the NowTV
boxes sold are not the £15 ones either , because wait a bit and you can get one with a pass for the
same amount of money or even less, to the point where people who never sideloaded anything
have draw fulls of the boxes, because even an offer of £20 for a box with a 3 month entertainment
pass (and there have been lots of better offers) is cheaper than buying three months of passes
which would cost you £21 and you get a spare remote too.

I'll let you carry on with this one 🙂

I'm busy doing other things....

Besides I see @SeeMoreDigital and co have gotten out the vinyl's again... damn they must be so
scratched and broken now the amount of times they've been played. I think Violins are probably all but
worn out too...

Originally by ukbobboy:

@SeeMoreDigital

Hi again SMD

Unfortunately, your answer shows that you have made an assumption based on another assumption,
i.e. if a Roku 3 retail cost £70. 00 and a NowTV black box is £15. 00 then someone is loosing out
somewhere.

However , my experience is somewhat different, remember when video VHS recorder , way back when,
cost on average £400. 00 retail. Did you know that they only cost £71. 00 to manufacture, package and
ship from Japan to the UK, the additional costs were mainly just "mark-up", i.e. what the market will
bear .

Since retail economics has not changed since then, just the products sold, I would suggest you rethink
your "highly subsidised" mantra, unless you can prove otherwise.


UK Bob

Originally by 4268:

@ukbobboy have you considered that there is such a thing as a loss leader .

Originally by Eddie-M (NowTV Team):

Hi @Anonymous User


Thanks for raising your concerns to us here on the Community, In relation to what a Now TV agent has
said about Plex being illegal your correct it is not however the content available to use with in Plex and
other Apps like it can be seen as illegal and therefore puts Now TV in a difficult position with Studios
and Record companies and therefore the decision was made to remove the Dev Mode which enabled
the ability to install Plex via Sideloading due to Plex not being available in the Now TV app store. Also if
apps are being used via the Now T v box that are not available in the App store provided and are
installed by other means i.e Sideloading then Now TV have the right to remove that functionallity if we
wish to do so. If your complaint relates to official apps in the app store available via the Now TV box
then please do raise those concerns with us and we will do what we can can to rectify them. However if
it only relates to an app not offically available on the Now TV box then we cannot do anything further
and there would be no legal basis for us to put that function back as it is against our terms of use. I
hope this clears it up for you and if you have any further questions please do ask away and we will do
our best to answer or at least get the answer for you.


Thanks
Eddie

Originally by DessieB:

Hi Eddie,

I wonder if you could take a moment to explain how customers using Plex on a NOW TV box puts Now
TV in a difficult position with Studios and Record companies, but Apple TV, Amazon Fire TV and Roku
all provide Plex for their Streaming boxes and Google provide Plex for android TV boxes without this
putting them in a difficult position with Studios and Record companies?

Thanks
DessieB

Originally by Eddie-M (Official NowTV Team)

Hi @Anonymous User

This would come down to legal notices Now TV have received and therefore have had to remove the
fuction due to some Customers using Plex to watch Pirated Content. So the Dev Mode has been
disabled to prevent Pirated content in the future which in turn has disabled Plex which again can be
used to access Content which can be seen as illegal. This is the steps we found nessecerry to take to
prevent this from happening. If others have not done this then we cannot speak for them we feel this
was the best step to take.


Cheers

Originally by DessieB

Hi Eddie,

So are you suggesting that Apple, Amazon, Roku and Google have not received similar legal notices, or
that they have received similar notices but have chosen to ignore them?

DessieB

Originally by Eddie-M (Official NowTV Team):

No at all @Anonymous User


I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. I am telling you what Now TV have received and what we have
done to rectify it if other companies have recieved the same notices then i'm sure they are taking the
Steps nessecerry to rectify that however we at Now TV are not privy to that information and therefore
cannot discuss what other companies intend to do if anything or if they have recieved the same
notices we can only discuss what Now TV have recieved and what we have done to ��x it. At the end of
the day Plex is not an offical app in the App store via the Now TV box therefore Now TV have no
legal obligation to provide that app and therefore can remove any means of accessing it.


Cheers

Originally by MattPenfold:

Eddie-M wrote:
Hi @Anonymous User


Thanks for raising your concerns to us here on the Community, In relation to what a Now TV agent
has said about Plex being illegal your correct it is not however the content available to use with in
Plex and other Apps like it can be seen as illegal and therefore puts Now TV in a difficult position
with Studios and Record companies and therefore the decision was made to remove the Dev Mode
which enabled the ability to install Plex via Sideloading due to Plex not being available in the Now
TV app store. Also if apps are being used via the Now T v box that are not available in the App store
provided and are installed by other means i.e Sideloading then Now TV have the right to remove
that functionallity if we wish to do so. If your complaint relates to official apps in the app store
available via the Now TV box then please do raise those concerns with us and we will do what we
can can to rectify them. However if it only relates to an app not offically available on the Now TV box
then we cannot do anything further and there would be no legal basis for us to put that function
back as it is against our terms of use. I hope this clears it up for you and if you have any further
questions please do ask away and we will do our best to answer or at least get the answer for you.


Thanks
Eddie
So why was I told Plex is illegal Eddie? You admit is untrue, yet that did not stop your colleagues from
say Plex is illegal software. What do you intend to do about their lack of honesty?

You claim you have the right to remove side-loaded apps, but you failed to offer any evidence you have
that right. Since you offered no evidence I can dismiss your claim you have that rigjt as baseless. You
have a choice. You can either offer that evidence, or accept you lied to me.

Originally by MattPenfold: (Post 1 on page 50)

Eddie,
You have admitted that Not TV altered my box. The law, in the form of the Computer Misuse Act 1990 is
clear in this regard. Unless you can show Now TV were authorized to access my box and make
alterations NOW TV have committed a criminal offence under Section 35 of that act. It is possible that
Now TV could be considered to have committed an offence under Section 37 , if there was intend to
impair use of the computer . A Section 35 offence carries a maximum sentence of 2 years
imprisonment, and a Section 37 offence carries a maximum of 10 years. Both offences can also carry
an unlimited Ƭne.
So you can only claim that Now TV have not comitted an offence under either Section 35 or 37 if you
can show you had authorisation to access my Now TV box. If you cannot do so, you will be admitting
that NOW TV commited a criminal offence.

Originally by WuffleBonk: (Post 2 on page 50)

@Anonymous User from NowTV, I think there's an age old addidge here that relates to Digging holes and knowing
when to stop 😄

From what I can see, your just not doing ANYTHING to help here, except making up what looks like
semi plausible explanations and hoping that we'll all buy into it.

I have to tip my hat and give you points for trying though. As myself and my co-conspiritors have
recently discovered, we can actually use the official, authourized apps that ARE in the NowTV store,
and pre installed on the box, INCLUDING YOUR VERY OWN NOWTV APP , to play ANY CONTENT we
want, including pirated content should we so wish, I wonder what the recording industry and
music/movie producers that sent NowTV those cease and desist plex letters would do if they found out
about that fact???

I think you'd be forced to remove your own apps, and every official app from the box, IF what your
trying to spin to us all, is actually true....

[4268]

@Anonymous User  you would probably save yourself​ a lot of time by saving posts in word table and posting all at once. There are YouTube videos​ which provide excellent help with those type of things.

[Anonymous User]

---

@4268 wrote:

@Anonymous User  you would probably save yourself​ a lot of time by saving posts in word table and posting all at once. There are YouTube videos​ which provide excellent help with those type of things.

---

Assuming your on about all the duplicate posts, I think you'll find it's the baffoons that run the NowTV support forum that are responsible for this.  🙂

I'd never use a childs toy like word for something I can do using grown up tools such as Sed/Awk/Grep and Curl to mention but a few.

but you know, the fact that you know those videos exist... well, just sayin.....

[Anonymous User]

by MattPenfold

SeeMoreDigital wrote:
Oh dear @Anonymous User...
Have you realised your lack of honesty? Only you need to apologise.
Why are you being so rude?

[Anonymous User]

by ASJMcGuire

I just want to point out - that pointing to the T &Cs that appear on the box itself is pointless. It has long
been shown that companies that do silly things like that can't rely on them in the future when claiming
that the user accepted them. No-one has ever bought a product and then returned it because they
don't agree with the T &Cs that you cannot read until AFTER you have paid for it. Microsoft is the same -no-one has ever purchased a copy of Windows for £110 and then read the terms and conditions,
decided they don't agree with them and them returned the product for a refund - partly because - the
box has been opened, the shrinkwrap has been removed - very few companies will accept the product
back under these conditions. The point of T &Cs is to allow both parties to know in advance what they
agree to.

For example Sky don't turn up on the doorstep and ask if I want Sky - get me to sign up and then send
me a copy of the T &Cs AFTER they have installed the dish and box - they ask me to read the T &Cs and
sign them BEFORE they ever provide me with the product.

Besides which - we are still in the EU right now - so this still
applies: http:// europa.eu/youreurope/ citizens/ consumers/unfair-treatment /unfair-contractterms/index_en.htm

"T erms which allow a trader to make changes to the product or service to be provided unilaterally and
without a valid reason."

[Anonymous User]

by MattPenfold

A transcript from a chat with online support. I lost track of the number I times I asked him to state what
authority Now TV had to alter my box. That I asked so many time, and got no answer so many times
suggests Now TV have no answer .
Arti (3/30/2017 , 7:45:57 PM): Thanks for contacting NOW TV, you are talking to Arti. How can I help?
Me (3/30/2017 , 7:46:24 PM): I sent a email yesterday. I have had a reply that did not answer my
questions.
Me (3/30/2017 , 7:46:33 PM): The ref is: 01912984.
Arti (3/30/2017 , 7:46:43 PM): Can I know your name please?
Me (3/30/2017 , 7:46:50 PM): Matt Penfold
Arti (3/30/2017 , 7:47:34 PM): Hello MAtt
Arti (3/30/2017 , 7:47:46 PM): Are you the account holder?
Me (3/30/2017 , 7:48:04 PM): Yes
Me (3/30/2017 , 7:48:14 PM): Well it is in my Wife's name
Me (3/30/2017 , 7:48:16 PM): Susan
Arti (3/30/2017 , 7:48:30 PM): Okay Matt.
Me (3/30/2017 , 7:48:31 PM): But the Now TV box is mine.
Arti (3/30/2017 , 7:49:35 PM): Let me check the case ref number
Arti (3/30/2017 , 7:51:52 PM): As I understand, the query is about Plex, am I right?
Arti (3/30/2017 , 7:53:34 PM): Are you still there Matt?
Me (3/30/2017 , 7:53:42 PM): It was.
Me (3/30/2017 , 7:54:02 PM): But I then asked what authority you had to update my box.
Me (3/30/2017 , 7:54:17 PM): Under UK law you must have authority to do so.
Me (3/30/2017 , 7:54:39 PM): No one at Now TV can state what that authority is, which leads you open
to prosecution.
Arti (3/30/2017 , 7:54:42 PM): I understand that, let me check please
Me (3/30/2017 , 7:55:03 PM): Your company could face an unlimited 컺�ne, and individuals could go to
prison.
Arti (3/30/2017 , 7:56:54 PM): One moment please.
Arti (3/30/2017 , 7:59:15 PM): There has been an update of 컺�rmware
Arti (3/30/2017 , 7:59:31 PM): It will disable the use of unofficial third party software or apps. However it
will not affect your ability to watch NOW TV or download supported apps through the Channel Store.
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:00:11 PM): You can contine to watch NOW TV or download supported apps through
the Channel Store
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:01:12 PM): Yes I know that.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:01:24 PM): Now answer the question I asked you please.
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:01:44 PM): Yes can you please help me with your query.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:01:55 PM): Answer my question.
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:02:05 PM): Yes can you please help me with your query.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:02:28 PM): ANSWER MY QUESTION
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:02:41 PM): You know the question.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:02:46 PM): You just failed to answer it.
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:03:38 PM): There has been a 컺�rmware update and hence Plex and other apps have
been removed.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:03:50 PM): Yes, I know that
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:03:53 PM): But you can continue watching them.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:03:56 PM): That is NOT what I asked you.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:04:14 PM): What gave you the authotity to update my box
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:04:27 PM): Your refusal to answer suggests you know you had no authority.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:04:33 PM): And thus you broke the law.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:04:45 PM): Now stop being a fool
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:05:37 PM): Third party apps were not allowed on NOW TV Box.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:05:53 PM): OK, and where does it say that?#
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:06:09 PM): You do not seem very bright.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:06:18 PM): Can I get someone who is not such an idiot please
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:07:45 PM): Well, I can help you with the link
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:07:52 PM): I have looked.
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:08:01 PM): YOu can go through the article on our community.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:08:05 PM): I have.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:08:18 PM): You will need to be more speci컺�c.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:09:18 PM): You should read it yourself , as you would know the agreement states you
INST ALL third party apps.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:09:35 PM): So you now need to do two things.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:10:01 PM): 1. T ell me where in those terms and conditions the relevant section can be
found.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:10:14 PM): 2. State what authority you had to update my box.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:10:34 PM): Because even if there was a third party app you cannot remove it without
permission.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:10:44 PM): So what do claim gave you permission?
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:11:15 PM): Well, we have not removed it
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:11:27 PM): You altered my box.
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:11:30 PM): You can still watch it on Channel Store.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:11:37 PM): T o do that you must have my permission.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:11:47 PM): What makes you think you had my permission?
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:12:02 PM): We have just done an update
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:12:13 PM): Yes,. and you need my permission
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:12:16 PM): The update will disable the use of unofficial third party software or apps
through the NOW TV Box
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:12:24 PM): So what makes you think you had my permission
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:12:40 PM): This has been done to improve the service.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:12:46 PM): That does not matter .
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:12:55 PM): What makes you think you had permission?
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:13:10 PM): This is important, because you could go to prison
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:13:24 PM): The latest update has been designed to safeguard the device from piracy
and illegal streaming of content; therefore it will disable the use of unofficial third party software or
apps.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:13:28 PM): It is an offence in the UK to alter a computer device without permission
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:13:38 PM): So what makes you think you had permission?
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:13:48 PM): Why you did not does not matter . So stop saying why.
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:13:51 PM): It is done across and not only for you.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:13:58 PM): That does not matter
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:14:12 PM): You cannot answer the question can you?
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:14:19 PM): You know you broke the law.
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:14:33 PM): You must not tamper with the software in the NOW TV Box or authorize
anybody else to do so” .
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:14:40 PM): I did not tamper with it.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:14:48 PM): I used a built in fuction.,
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:14:49 PM): This is stated in the T erms and conditions of the NOW TV Box
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:14:59 PM): So that will not Ʈy.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:15:05 PM): NOW ANSWER MY QUESTION,
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:15:08 PM): Last chance.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:15:18 PM): What gave you permission to update my box.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:15:30 PM): If you do not give a proper answer I will report you.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:15:49 PM): Do you understand that you could face prosecution?
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:16:04 PM): Well, it has not just been done for you.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:16:14 PM): OK, you admit you broke the law.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:16:15 PM): Well done.
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:16:21 PM): this has been done on purpose.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:16:43 PM): Arti, stop being a fool
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:17:05 PM): 1. You cannot alter a computer device in the UK without permission.
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:17:06 PM): The update is for all NOW TV Boxes.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:17:35 PM): 2. It does not matter why you alter the device, if you do not have
permission you are breaking the law.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:17:59 PM): 3. It does not matter how many devices you do it to, except that it is a
seperate offence for every device.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:18:09 PM): So what gave you permission?
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:19:07 PM): Matt, it has not just been done for you.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:19:20 PM): Arti, that does not matter .
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:19:28 PM): What gave you permission?>
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:19:38 PM): Why can you not answer that question?
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:19:50 PM): Are you aware how rude not doing so makes you?
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:20:00 PM): You come across as someone who has something to hide.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:20:07 PM): So what are you hiding?
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:20:17 PM): This has been done to improve the service
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:20:23 PM): That DOES NOT MA TTER!
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:20:28 PM): I have explained that you.
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:20:28 PM): has been designed to safeguard the device from piracy and illegal
streaming of content; therefore it will disable the use of unofficial third party software or apps.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:20:44 PM): And what gave you permission?
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:21:34 PM): Unauthorised access to computer material.
(1)A person is guilty of an offence if—
(a)he causes a computer to perform any function with intent to secure access to any program or data
held in any computer [F1, or to enable any such access to be secured] ;
(b)the access he intends to secure [F2, or to enable to be secured,] is unauthorised; and
(c)he knows at the time when he causes the computer to perform the function that that is the case.
(2)The intent a person has to have to commit an offence under this section need not be directed at—
(a)any particular program or data;
(b)a program or data of any particular kind; or
(c)a program or data held in any particular computer .
[F3(3)A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—
(a)on summary conviction in England and Wales, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months
or to a 컺�ne not exceeding the statutory maximum or to both;
(b)on summary conviction in Scotland, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding [F412] months or to a
컺�ne not exceeding the statutory maximum or to both;
(c)on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or to a 컺�ne or to
both.]
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:21:46 PM): This is the developer mode
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:21:53 PM): That is the text of Section 35 of the Computer Misuse Act.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:22:07 PM): As you can see you need authority to alter a computer device.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:22:21 PM): Can you show you had such authority to alter my Now TV box?
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:22:50 PM): If you cannot, can you see that Now TV will have broken the law?
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:22:57 PM): Third party apps were never allowed on NOW TV Box.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:23:06 PM): Answer the question Arti
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:23:25 PM): No, get your supervisor .
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:23:38 PM): You failiure to answer has gone on to long.
Arti (3/30/2017 , 8:24:04 PM): Well, my supervisor would tell you exactly the same thing.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:24:20 PM): You need to be aware that is Now TV cannot show they had authority they
have committed a criminal offence.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:24:29 PM): And you cannot show Now TV had authority.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:24:41 PM): So you are admitting Now TV broke the law.
Me (3/30/2017 , 8:25:08 PM): I think your supervisor will want to know the trouble you are getting your
employer into.

[Anonymous User]

by WuffleBonk

MattPenfold wrote:
SeeMoreDigital wrote:
Oh dear @Anonymous User...
Have you realised your lack of honesty? Only you need to apologise.
Why are you being so rude?

Sadly, I feel that SMD lacks the ability to actually understand what it is that your on about, as previous
posts show thier judgment is severaly clouded by thier love of all things NowTV.

[Anonymous User]

by SeeMoreDigital

You're comment cuts both ways @Anonymous User.

Sufficed to say, since the unsupported 'sideloading' feature has been removed from all NOW TV
branded devices I will formally request that this 'off-topic' discussion (along with any others) be
removed from the forum.

[Anonymous User]

by MattPenfold

SeeMoreDigital wrote:
You're comment cuts both ways @Anonymous User.

Sufficed to say, since the unsupported 'sideloading' feature has been removed from all NOW TV
branded devices I will formally request that this 'off-topic' discussion (along with any others) be
removed from the forum.
So you want hide your lack of honesty? Not very honest of you is it?
I note you have not supported your claim that Now TV had lawful authority to upgrade boxes. Your
failure to do so is admission on your part you cannot do so, and you lied when you said you could. You
obviously think lying is acceptable behaviour .
DId you notice how Arti could not answer my question either? It seems no one can. Which is troubling.

[Anonymous User]

by SeeMoreDigital

I don't have to justify myself to you or anyone else @Anonymous User.

What I have said. And I repeat: -
NOW TV have never officially advertised that 'sideloading' was an official feature-set of their NOW TV
branded boxes!

I also mentioned that there was a post submitted by a NOW TV T eam member referencing why the
'developer mode' feature had been removed (the topic of which has been removed)... That's it.

[Anonymous User]

by Steve9872

SeeMoreDigital wrote:
I don't have to justify myself to you or anyone else @Anonymous User.

What I have said. And I repeat: -
NOW TV have never officially advertised that 'sideloading' was an official feature-set of their NOW
TV branded boxes!

I also mentioned that there was a post submitted by a NOW TV T eam member referencing why the
'developer mode' feature had been removed (the topic of which has been removed)... That's it.
You do realise that the argument that because some people have used their operating system for
piracy they have an unlimited right to change the software on boxes they don't own, has very far
reaching consequences.
For instance it would give say Microsoft the right to wipe every windows operating system and replace
it with DOS 1. 0, after all a lot of piracy and other illegal acts are commited on windows computers but
would be very difficult to perform on a DOS based computer .
If you think the argument is stupid then consider this. Courts like setting precedents, it make further
cases easy to judge the same way and has the added bene韐�t of looking fair to all.
In this case a precedent has already been set when Sony did the same thing to PS3's. It cost them
millions. Now TV are up sh*t creek without a paddle.