bt switching off land line for digital voice

[Nittyg]

am i right in thinking with land lines soon to be switched off for digital voice calls, does that mean land line/rental charges will be lowered/reduced because of this or is that wishful thinking ?

[RoyB]

@redchiz1 

No digging needed - FTTC needs copper to the cabinet, but PSTN needs copper to the exchange, a rather larger undertaking. Probably the difference between yards of copper, and hundreds of yards, and Openreach pricing accordingly, a strong incentive to only offer VoIP going forward.

[RoyB]

@Jayach 

Yes,  the 'certain percentage' areas are the ones I referred to, as do OR, as FTTP Priority = Y.

In these, if  FTTP is available to your premises, then you can't have anything else 

But if you are in the '100 - the percentage' category, assuming that is non-zero, you can still have a copper connection to the cabinet (indeed must), and MPF to Sky, or indeed anyone with an LLU, at the local exchange.

But no LLU to your chosen ISP, then no MPF. So copper only to the cabinet, to pick up fibre, and only VOIP if you want a phone service.

Where your only choice is ADSL, maybe still copper to the exchange, but no PSTN on it. (I think, but haven't thoroughly researched this corner case). 

[Heinstein]

First of all I'm glad @RoyB  isn't 100% sure about all this as I try to follow it and was feeling bad for struggling, and you do much better with this stuff than me!  Looking at your question...

I think the product that Now/Sky buy from Openreach in order to be able to connect Openreach copper to Sky equipment at the exchange is called MPF.    So, Now's ability to supply voice-over-copper depends on the availability of MPF from Openreach.

Openreach describes what's available here including MPF. 

At the risk of getting things wrong, it looks to me like MFP is still available, even if the property can get FTTP so Now could supply voice-over-copper if it wanted to. 

Openreach also say MPF is available for new supply if FTTP is not available at a property.  So, for a new-build with no FTTP, would Openreach run new copper to the property to satisfy the MPF order?  It seems so.  Or just run fibre so that they do not then have to supply MPF!

As @RoyB says, ultimately Openreach want to get rid of the copper lines and a fair few exchanges.  To achieve that I suppose we'll see the withdrawal of MPF being available to Sky etc when a property can get FTTP, but we're not there yet.

[RoyB]

@Heinstein 

It’s all as clear as mud, with Openreach not defining MPF in the above link, though I know it’s Metallic Path Facility (saying ‘copper’ now being doubleplus ungood 😛)

So when Openreach say “BT announced in 2017 that it will be closing down the Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN) in December 2025.  As WLR relies on the PSTN it means that Openreach will no longer offer or support this product following the closure.”

And yet they are still offering MPF, which relies on POTS (assuming that you can get @Jayach‘s cigarette paper of distinction from PSTN in here), and so needs a copper run from cabinet to exchange (@Jayach, I know the run from consumer to cabinet will have to be copper if FTTP isn’t available, and I wasn’t talking about that).

But if the link from cabinet to LLU isn’t PSTN, then presumably it can continue, nonVOIP, after 31/12/2025? If people can still buy the right sort of phones, that is.

Or are Openreach just prolonging the agony of going VoIP for customers with MPF/LLU links to their ISPs, who are all going to have to switch by end 2025 anyway?

From the given link, re MPF availability:-

“These rules will only apply to premises in an FTTP Priority Exchange where FTTP is available. In these instances, FTTP will be the only product you can buy.  This means WLR3 Analogue, ISDN 2, ISDN 30, SMPF, MPF, FTTC, Narrowband Line Share, Classic, Gfast, SOGfast, SOGEA and SOTAP will be unavailable”.

In other words, where the exchange is designated as FTTP Priority = “Y”, and the premises being newly connected can have FTTP, then that’s all they can have, and MPF won’t be available. Nothing personal to Sky and its LLU; it’s just business. And that’s in force right now.

https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/products/the-all-ip-programme/stopsell-updates

[RoyB]

@redchiz1 

I’m not sure what you say is correct.

All existing customers on all ISPs, who don’t try to change the service they are currently getting, can continue with those services, over their existing copper, and fibre if any, until 31 December 2025.

On that date all PSTN Services will stop operating, so if those people want to continue with a telephone service from their ISP, they had better adopt VoIP before that date. Or they can just let their telephone service die, and use their mobiles if they want to make calls.

There will be new Now customers on FTTC via the continued provision by Openreach of MPF connections to Sky/Now LLU equipment in exchanges. That’s the basis, and I think the only basis, on which new Now customers are being connected at present.

Stop Sell impacts Now in ‘only’ two ways; would-be new Now customers in areas where there is no Sky LLU in their local exchange can’t be taken on, and would-be new Now customers in FTTP Priority areas can’t be taken on if they could be served by FTTP.

But would-be new Now customers who can be served by MPF/LLU can still be taken on in areas not designated as FTTP Priority, even if they could have had FTTP, and can still be taken on in FTTP Priority areas, as long as their premises can’t be served by FTTP. (Because FTTP Priority areas don’t have to have 100% FTTP coverage).

[redchiz1]

@RoyB 

OK then, all good as far as my BT Wholesale check goes, but NOW say no?

I have screenshots, but I can't seem to post them for some reason?

[Jayach]

Phew, does anybody else's head hurt?

[chilli2]

PSTN = Public Telephone Switched Service

POTS = Post Office Telephone system, then Plain Old Telephone System, possibly Phased Out Telephone System?

[redchiz1]

@chilli2 

Actually it's Public Switched Telephone Network. What's your point, otherwise? 

[Jayach]

@redchiz1 

I suspect it was just a joke, lighten up!

It's all going to be ancient history soon.