F1 2020 on NowTV. What do we want?

[Anonymous User]

What do we want to see from NowTV F1 in 2020 ?

I'd want a stand alone HD app with live and catch up at a maximum of £10 per month. 

[Anonymous User]

Eh? You get all the channels under that deal?

Assuming from the list you don't watch, that you're just after the footie? There was a similar 'season ticket' for the prem last year - @£190 for 9 months  - but you got all the channels. If it was available, given that you're not interested in anything else, if there was the option of 9 months of just Sky premier League for £100 - that wouldn't be a better option for you?

[Anonymous User]

Yep, for the last 2 years I got the F1 pass - it allowed me to watch any of the Sky Sports Channels on NowTV.

It'll be a development reason why it's like that. Easier to hack it and charge a one-off payment, and then give the subscriber a 9 month "Free-trial" before the start to get billed the usual £34/month - than it is to get the developers to create a bespoke plan that just gives people access to one channel.

...could also be that if people see the value of having access to all those channels, they might be more likely to continue paying the higher monthly fee.

[Anonymous User]

was a reply to to the previous poster (the same one you responded to, just took me a bit longer) 😉 

[starman73]

The point is you don't get individual subscriptions to individual sports. F1 is just another "sport". Why should it have a separate pass? And if it does why not Golf, Cricket, Fighting, Ping Pong, Netball etc.  How many passes would you have? 

I think F1 gets a good deal. A 24/7 channel and you can watch a few of the races on Sky One. You can even get the £50 3 month sports passes from Currys when they are on sale.

Far better value than paying £10 for a single GAA game.  I would gladly pay £150 a season to watch GAA on a 24/7 channel. In fact I pay 70 euro for GAAGO, expect for the Sky exclusive games.

The idea of separate passes for separate sports won't necessarily mean savings. Sky do it and it's about £5/month less than getting all the channels. (£23 vs. £18) though you have to have 18 month contract for all sports.

[starman73]

The crux of the matter is this.  Without the millions of football subscribers the whole business model for Sky does not work.  F1 tried PPV and what happened...

Take-up for the service, charged at £12 per race, was low with as little as 9,000 viewers subscribing to see some races. To increase the flagging take-up, F1 Digital+ ran a promotion where one could get the final six races of the season for only £50 compared with paying £72.  The service was never financially viable and was terminated at the end of the 2002 season 

Six races for £50!  Now you get 22 for less than £200 and a 24/7 channel.  

You want a standalone F1 channel, but would you if it cost more?

[Anonymous User]

In 2002 hardly anyone had broadband and F1 was free in any case in the UK on ITV....... the digital world was very different 18 years ago. This year I simply ain't paying for Sky unless I get a dedicated cheaper channel with on demand content......its 2020 for heavens sake, Sky needs to think more Netflix / Amazon.

[Anonymous User]

And no not the footie lol - this thread is about F1. We just want access to the F1 channel.

Give me access to JUST that for £10/month and I'll continue subscribing throughout the year

[starman73]

 if there was the option of 9 months of just Sky premier League for £100 - that wouldn't be a better option for you?

It would be a better option, but it's not going to happen.  Also I have to get Amazon and BT Sport for football as well.

I don't know if there are any numbers on Sky Sports subscribers across all platforms, but for the sake of argument let's say it is 5 million.  I guesstimate the vast majority subscribe primarily for football.  If the football was removed I guess well over 4 million would cancel.  If F1 was removed, i doubt it would be as many as 100,000.    

IMHO, if all you like is F1 then its great to have a 24/7 channel and all the races in one place.

Follow GAA and you need a couple of subscriptions.  Follow football and it can be 3 or 4.

If I could get all the football for £200/annum I would be delighted.

[Anonymous User]

@starman73 Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with the analysis of the business model etc.... but I think there will come a point where folks who have a 'niche' interest in sports (i.e. the F1) just don't see it worth while subscribing to everything just to get the F1. At the end of it all, I will watch perhaps 6-8 hours of the channel 20(ish) times per year. I know the channel is there 24/7, but 90%+ is repeats and mostly filler. I think if you're following the football, you're getting 00's if not 000's of hours of interest for your money. If you're a 'sports fan' in general, then without a doubt it is a bargain.

I don't know if NowTV release the subscriber numbers, but I'll bet there was a massive drop in F1 passes in 2019 as opposed to 2018, and I'd wager there will be another drop if a similar price increase comes along. 

I don't imagine there will be an F1 channel only pass - if that was so important then there's always Sky and the single channel subscription @£18 but on a contract, which works out at £162 for the 9 months (but you have to sign up for 18 months I think? And have a dish installed. And a box. And hope it doesn't rain too hard).

All things considered, I don't expect to be thrilled with the offer, but at the same time, Sky have to consider if it's worth getting some money out of more potential F1 subscribers for some access vs getting more money out of less people for all the access - I don't know where that tipping point would be though? After all, you can get a VPN for pennies per month, and there's still plenty of FTA channels - or even subscribing to F1TV as options. Or, just watch Channel 4 in the evening for nowt

[Anonymous User]

Nice to see lots of debate on the thread.

Here's what Sky are blocking from us in the UK - now available on Roku

(a NowTV box is basically a restricted Roku)

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.f1-tv-now-available-on-the-roku-platform-in-the-usa.4ph7i...

F1TV has had it's teething problems apparently since launch, but it's priced sensibly and the idea is right.

[starman73]

@starman73 Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with the analysis of the business model etc.... but I think there will come a point where folks who have a 'niche' interest in sports (i.e. the F1) just don't see it worth while subscribing to everything just to get the F1. At the end of it all, I will watch perhaps 6-8 hours of the channel 20(ish) times per year. I know the channel is there 24/7, but 90%+ is repeats and mostly filler. I think if you're following the football, you're getting 00's if not 000's of hours of interest for your money. If you're a 'sports fan' in general, then without a doubt it is a bargain.

Understood. My niche interest is GAA and I pay 70 euro/annum for GAAGO, but because I am in the UK have to get Sky Sports during the summer for the latter stages. I am interested in football, but I only follow 3 clubs, and only 2 of them appear on TV now Orient are in the League and not getting plenty of coverage on BT Sport as they did in the last couple of season.  So whilst there are 100s of hours of football (but no England internationals nor FA Cup nor UEFA games), I generally just get day/week passes as and when necessary.   And trust me, most of the football channels are mostly filler as well.

I do watch other sports, but by and large they are not on Sky, namely Tennis and Rugby Union.  I did watch the Cricket World Cup & Ashes, but on the whole there aren't many sports I care for on Sky. 

So I do understand, but I don't see the case for just F1 unless the same is done for all other sports or at least Cricket & Golf which have their own channels. And then how complex would the passes be ?  Day passes for F1, 4 day passes for Golf, 5 day passes for Cricket...

[Anonymous User]

@starman73  I do understand, but I don't see the case for just F1 unless the same is done for all other sports or at least Cricket & Golf which have their own channels. And then how complex would the passes be ?  Day passes for F1, 4 day passes for Golf, 5 day passes for Cricket...

I suspect this would be the key point / blocking factor.

The argument from Sky I guess would be 'Buy Sky Sports with a single channel' = £18/month - that would be the cheapest way at the moment of getting the F1 channel = £162 for the 9 months - so there's no real incentive to beat that other than perhaps bumping up subscription numbers. Hands are pretty much tied in beating that figure in terms of a 9 month <anything> pass as they can't be seen to be undercutting the 'main offering' 

20-22 day passes at £10 each = £200-220 so really the limit has to be around that £200 mark.

You can wait for special offer/bundles where you can get deals on passes, but some people won't want the faff, this is a trade off for your time vs your money - I think it's worth considering though to get the season for £100ish (Ent passes can be bought for a few quid on ebay)

So, in the interest of making a solution which everyone is happy with what about offering a 'bundle of day passes' e.g. 20 day passes for £100 - I'd consider something like that - or a bundle of weekend passes for a bit more?  Day/week/month already exist - can't be much more hassle to add a 48 hour one? You could then use these on whatever dates for whatever sport you wanted to watch. This way, Sky get money out of me that they otherwise wouldn't, I get to watch what I want & when I want - and I daresay I might use them for things other than the F1 at which point Sky gets more money off me. Once you've committed to a platform, it's much easier to spend more on that platform than look elsewhere.

There will come a point where they have to consider something else - especially if faced with dropping numbers. There will be a tipping point where it's better to get less money from more people rather than more money from less people..but as said before, that's unfortunately out of our hands

[Anonymous User]

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@Anonymous User wrote:

The argument from Sky I guess would be 'Buy Sky Sports with a single channel' = £18/month - that would be the cheapest way at the moment of getting the F1 channel = £162 for the 9 months - so there's no real incentive to beat that other than perhaps bumping up subscription numbers.

Problem is, it's not just £18/month - You've then got the base sky package you HAVE to take (Around £22) and then your TV License on top (£13/month). Considering I'm one of the growing many that doesn't watch normal TV, or have an interest in doing so; that works out at £53/month Just to watch about 6 hours of one channel a month! £8.83 per hour - that's triple the rate you'd pay to watch a film in most cinemas.

I really hope that Liberty Media are putting pressure on Sky to increase their viewing figures, as Liberty have done an amazing job with getting all the action on social media and really getting a lot more people interested in the sport. It just seems inaccessible to many without offers like the one NowTV offer. But, if that goes up to a similar "one-off payment of £230 (Based on last years price rise) most people won't see the value... Especially when you see the value you get out of paying Amazon or Netflix a much smaller fee for a lot more content

[Anonymous User]

Personally, I think Liberty should cancel their distribution contracts around the world, acquire the Sky production and hosts and make F1 TV a global subscription business. 

Bernie sold the rights to TV stations because back in the day there were no easy ways to distribute content on that scale, But tech has moved on and live steamed platforms are relatively easy to build. I take it that F1's instagram followers are just a percentage of what they have, but let's take those 8.7m for example and say they subscribe directly to F1 TV for £10/month... that's over £1bn/$1.3bn in yearly subscription revenue!

That trumps the $0.15bn Sky are paying them for the rights each year and it sounds like that's one of the biggest payers for the rights. F1 could then utilise the extra cashflow to put on more events, shows and races out-of-season to keep people subscribing all year (imagine a rally stage in December, open to all F1 drivers and filmed in the same way - I'd certainly keep subscribing) vs the constant race replays and short documentaries that are constantly repeated.

[Anonymous User]

Dug around and they're already doing it in the US for $79:

Watch live

• Live stream every track session for all GPs
• Access all driver onboard cameras & team radios
• Live stream F1, F2, F3 and Porsche Supercup

Watch F1 on demand*

• Full Race replays and highlights
• On demand access to all F1 onboard cameras
• Watch all F1, F2, F3, Porsche Supercup replays
• F1's historic race archive

Just need to ditch Sky now

[gavs82008]

@Anonymous User @Anonymous User @starman73 

Apologies all for thread invasion, I do not watch F1, or much sport. I do follow Hearts who are hardly on TV, mainly because in general Scottish football has sh!t coverage compared to the EPL. 

What really gets me is how Sky can offer their TV customers individual channels for £18 each or the full whack at £23 (albeit both with offers on). Source link below. 

https://www.sky.com/shop/tv/sports?irct=ShopHomeDefault-Sports#!7-2-

Whereas the idea of individual passes was mooted a couple years ago in a survey along with sport catch up. Both have come to nothing. 

[starman73]

 the idea of individual passes was mooted a couple years ago in a survey along with sport catch up. Both have come to nothing. 

Individual channel passes are highly unlikely. There are already 4 sports passes and they seem to cause enough confusion. Multiply that by 5 and you end up with weird and wonderful combos.

The sports catch up is a glaring omission.  A 7 day catch up of all live events along with 30 minute highlights as appropriate would be superb. Pretty much all the other programmes could be on demand.  It could only be there for monthly subscribers to prevent day passes being used post weekend. Premier Sports has a 7 day catch up on basic subscription and for £2 extra a season catch up.

[starman73]

So, in the interest of making a solution which everyone is happy with what about offering a 'bundle of day passes' e.g. 20 day passes for £100 - I'd consider something like that - or a bundle of weekend passes for a bit more?  Day/week/month already exist - can't be much more hassle to add a 48 hour one?

You can stockpile day passes on an account off the sticks, but otherwise this causes problems. You currently can’t have more than one day or week or month pass on the same account. So if there is a really good month offer like last year’s £9.99/month offer you would be forced to watch the day pass  to get it. Worse still, if you had a week pass, you couldn’t take it up as it would not be available after watching for the week.  

The week pass is effectively a 25/48/72/96/120 hour pass.  The day pass is £10, the week pass £15 and the month pass £20.  There aren’t any sensible price points inbetween.  Golf tournaments take 4 days, Cricket matches 5 days, so the week covers it all.   

[Anonymous User]

I don't watch football & test match cricket if live from the likes of Australia etc is in the early hours of the morning, so why can't they introduce a F1. Only day pass at about a fiver that would be fairer

[starman73]

... F1 only day pass at about a fiver that would be fairer

Fairer for just F1? I suspect that most people who but a one day pass do it because there is just one thing they want to watch as a one off.  Might be they support a team that isn’t one of the so called big six, or like me want to watch a GAA game in the summer.  Now sports passes seem to cause enough queries without making it fairer.  Whatever fairer is. In fact with a few Grand Prix on Sky one as part of entertainment and one on channel 4, it’s pretty unfair for those who would like similar for their team and/or sport.  Can’t imagine the boxing PPV will be very fair next weekend.  £25 seems pretty unfair.

[starman73]

And it is totally unfair that I have to pay £10 for a streamed Orient away game with just one camera and ropey commentary . And even more totally unfair that I can’t even do that if they play on Saturday at 3pm.  

The coverage of F1 on Sky is great, £10 for a live race, extensive coverage and over 100 cameras on the whole thing with some in the cars.  And all on one devoted channel so you don’t get run overs that mean you miss the start of something or cut offs meaning you miss the end of something.