Modem mode

[SimonFin]

Hi all,

I’m  getting Now broadband fitted in a few days as a backup connection. I’ve currently got gigabit from Virgin media with the VM hub in modem mode, plugged into a multi-WAN router, with a Three Mobile broadband base unit (again in modem mode) plugged into a second WAN port. I want to add the Now broadband as the second option, so if the router identifies VM dropping out then it goes to Now, and if that drops out as well then it goes to the Three mobile connection. 

This will allow me to take the mobile broadband with me with away from home while retaining redundancy at home. 

The expected speed for Now is about 40-60 meg download, 10-17 upload, and if/when I get full fibre here I’ll be happy to swap ISP again, but right now Now is the cheapest option. 

all the above is background to show why I actually need modem mode, or something similar enough to let me plug it into the TPLink ER605 as a backup connection. As a final resort I’d be capable of getting my own modem with the correct modem mode available but would rather avoid that if I can. 

Any ideas please?

[chilli2]

Is VM really that unreliable for a domestic home user?

Going to the extent of having two services for a home users is, in my opinion a little over the top - but anyways ( you may guess where this may be going soon)

The Router supplied by Now is incredibly basic ( to say the least) and amongst the many basic things it can not do - as far as i know, is run in a modem only mode.

 This gives you two options, Double NAT, or provide your own router ( or modem)  to use with Now that does what you want it to do, and at the same time is compatible with SKy/Nows MER/option 61 log in system

Now is a domestic home use service, the support levels are far from what you would call business level support, and you will not get any invoices with VAT or whatever on that you can use for business purposes.

 If you need something a little more ring fenced, then you need a business level service, Sky offer business level broadband, as do others such as BT etc

[SimonFin]

For the sake of £20 a month to have the ability to fall back to another connection when the main one goes funny it's well worth it to me.  Between working from home and having a disabled wife who really needs the benefits of a smart, online home to help automate tasks, it's well worth it for me.  I don't need a single broadband account with a commercial SLA - Offline is offline and will cost a lot more than 2 domestic connections running on very different networks.  

Any suggestions for a compatible modem/router?  The connection will be maxing out at well under 100meg, and when it comes time to consider a significant upgrade I'd be looking to move to an ISP with a suitable modem-mode router provided.

[SimonFin]

Also I've got a working mesh wifi network and everything else is hardwired over gigabit ethernet, so the requirement is really for the cheapest compatible modem/router than can be run in modem mode, everything else is being done by a fairly decent piece of equipment 🙂

[RoyB]

@SimonFin 

You will need to ensure that the VM cable to your home and the Openreach cable that Now will use are sufficiently physically separated such that no one local mishap (e.g. utility contractors breaking both cables in a botched excavation) can disable both.

Otherwise you won’t have the local redundancy you are looking for. In your situation, I’d be looking at two mobile services as fallback for Virgin, not one landline service and one mobile.

(I assume you physically take the Three Mobile base unit with you when you work away from home?)

I also wonder about your household electricity supply - what would you do in a power cut? UPS? Generator? You don’t want to have two or three levels of internet fallback, and be caught out by your mains electricity as a SPOF.

My BT router has never so much as dropped to its backup mobile service in two years due to landline failure, but we had a three-hour power outage in the recent snows.

[SimonFin]

In the event of power going off, we'd drop to the mobile connection in a battery power Mifi type device, and we have sufficient battery capacity at home that this would suffice overnight.  Longer than this starts being a different kind of issue, at which point we'd be looking to decamp to stay with family with working utilities, if for no other reason than if the power is off that long it's likely to be an issue over quite a large area, so mobile data is likely to die off/get saturated.

In terms of mobile backup - I have Three as an actual mobile broadband account, as well as EE and Vodafone in mobile phones with more than enough data to cover tethering for as long as it was needed.

Geographically the cables will both be running down my road, but beyond that locality they head off in different directions so it would take a fairly major digger based incident to knock both offline.  

VM has gone down a few times in the last year, for a few hours each time, and it can occasionally go very slowly.  For the sake of £20 for the fixed line backup it's worth it to me.  I know it isn't 100%, and that there are issues that can taken down both connections, but it is more reliable than a single fixed line and the latency of a cable is much lower than I get on mobile connections.

I know that for some outsiders this might seem daft, but for my wife and I it is the best option available right now - three different internet connections with 2 of them being fixed line and the last using mobile data is by far the cheapest option for out situation, and gives the flexibility of taking the mobile connection with me/us when away on holiday or with work.  All I really need to make it work exactly as desired is a suggestion for a cheap modem/router that I can use instead of the supplied Now box - finding one that has the MERS/61 option is difficult to filter on when searching outside of the forum.

Cheers.

[Jayach]

Most TP-Link VDSL routers now seem to have the Sky_MER option. however as it's just a back up, using double NAT should be O.K. for the few times you may need it.

Probably worth giving it a go, before getting another router.

[SimonFin]

Thanks, I'm getting the line installed tomorrow so will see if the double NAT option works and then feedback.

[chilli2]

I think its the TP link VR series that work with Now/Sky and some/most of the newer ones.

 As for Double NAT, it may not be a huge issue as a back up service try it before you go to the time and expense of getting another router/modem .

  That level of redundancy for a domestic connection, does to me, seem a little excessive in both cost and time to set up

To throw the cat amongst the pigeons so to speak, if the VM connection is only for the internet/phone would there be any cost saving in ditching the VM service, and using Now as the primary with a modem/router that has the ability to use a 3G/4G usb stick as a back up connection

And to throw another cat in, how reliable is your mobile signal during a powercut? I lose connection on 3 and O2 if the power is off for longer than 15 minutes, and as far as i know other networks also fall over as the masts lose power

[SimonFin]

To have a pigeon eating cat - VM is gigabit down, 50 meg upload.  Now will be 40-50 meg download and 10 upload.  Useable as a backup to allow the Ring doorbell, fire sticks etc to work but certainly not ideal for streaming multiple 4K streams and downloading new games on the XBox/PS5 in any kind of sensible time frame :-). It's better than the days of ADSL when the absolute maximum was 2 meg on a good day - at the end of a very long cable from the "local" exchange thats a couple of miles away in a straight line.

There are other smaller issues with VM - there's a weird intermittent issue with my works VPN and Virgin Media (it is the ISP thats the issue, but it's proving very difficult getting the issue fixed) - sometimes it refuses to connect to the VPN that means the work laptop is offline.  Rather than use the work provided mobile phone to tether having a second ISP to drop to for that work day will make life easier.  The extra latency of using a mobile connection and the VPN is annoying, and the cost of driving to the office puts me off going in when I don't need to.  

The autistic (and otherwise disabled) wife also gets very upset when the internet is acting up, so for her just knowing there is a decent backup is helpful for her peace of mind.  And a happy wife means a happy life 😉

I agree it is overkill for what most people would want, but there are a few factors that kick it over into being worth £20 a month for us.  I'll try the double NAT option first and see what happens when I just unplug the VM.  

Thanks!