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Anonymous User
Not applicable

Latest update removing dev mode

Originally by JaBuzzard: (Post 1 page 49)

 

SeeMoreDigital wrote:
What???

A NOW TV branded box retails at just £15. 00. The Roku boxes cost signi��cantly more! Somebodies
taking a hit for the differences!

Yes Roku are not making a pro��t. There is a large difference between zero pro��t and a subsidy. The bill
of materials for a NowTV box is most likely well under £15, and my bet is most of the NowTV boxes sold
are not the £15 ones either , because wait a bit and you can get one with a pass for the same amount of
money or even less, to the point where people who never sideloaded anything have draw fulls of the
boxes, because even an offer of £20 for a box with a 3 month entertainment pass (and there have been
lots of better offers) is cheaper than buying three months of passes which would cost you £21 and you
get a spare remote too.

 

Originally by Wufflebonk: (Post 2 Page 49)

 

jabuzzard wrote:
SeeMoreDigital wrote:
What???

A NOW TV branded box retails at just £15. 00. The Roku boxes cost signi��cantly more!
Somebodies taking a hit for the differences!

Yes Roku are not making a pro��t. There is a large difference between zero pro��t and a subsidy. The
bill of materials for a NowTV box is most likely well under £15, and my bet is most of the NowTV
boxes sold are not the £15 ones either , because wait a bit and you can get one with a pass for the
same amount of money or even less, to the point where people who never sideloaded anything
have draw fulls of the boxes, because even an offer of £20 for a box with a 3 month entertainment
pass (and there have been lots of better offers) is cheaper than buying three months of passes
which would cost you £21 and you get a spare remote too.

I'll let you carry on with this one 🙂

I'm busy doing other things....

Besides I see @SeeMoreDigital and co have gotten out the vinyl's again... damn they must be so
scratched and broken now the amount of times they've been played. I think Violins are probably all but
worn out too...

 

Originally by ukbobboy:

 

@SeeMoreDigital

Hi again SMD

Unfortunately, your answer shows that you have made an assumption based on another assumption,
i.e. if a Roku 3 retail cost £70. 00 and a NowTV black box is £15. 00 then someone is loosing out
somewhere.

However , my experience is somewhat different, remember when video VHS recorder , way back when,
cost on average £400. 00 retail. Did you know that they only cost £71. 00 to manufacture, package and
ship from Japan to the UK, the additional costs were mainly just "mark-up", i.e. what the market will
bear .

Since retail economics has not changed since then, just the products sold, I would suggest you rethink
your "highly subsidised" mantra, unless you can prove otherwise.


UK Bob

 

Originally by 4268:

 

@ukbobboy have you considered that there is such a thing as a loss leader .

 

Originally by Eddie-M (NowTV Team):

 

Hi @Anonymous User


Thanks for raising your concerns to us here on the Community, In relation to what a Now TV agent has
said about Plex being illegal your correct it is not however the content available to use with in Plex and
other Apps like it can be seen as illegal and therefore puts Now TV in a difficult position with Studios
and Record companies and therefore the decision was made to remove the Dev Mode which enabled
the ability to install Plex via Sideloading due to Plex not being available in the Now TV app store. Also if
apps are being used via the Now T v box that are not available in the App store provided and are
installed by other means i.e Sideloading then Now TV have the right to remove that functionallity if we
wish to do so. If your complaint relates to official apps in the app store available via the Now TV box
then please do raise those concerns with us and we will do what we can can to rectify them. However if
it only relates to an app not offically available on the Now TV box then we cannot do anything further
and there would be no legal basis for us to put that function back as it is against our terms of use. I
hope this clears it up for you and if you have any further questions please do ask away and we will do
our best to answer or at least get the answer for you.


Thanks
Eddie

 

Originally by DessieB:

 

Hi Eddie,

I wonder if you could take a moment to explain how customers using Plex on a NOW TV box puts Now
TV in a difficult position with Studios and Record companies, but Apple TV, Amazon Fire TV and Roku
all provide Plex for their Streaming boxes and Google provide Plex for android TV boxes without this
putting them in a difficult position with Studios and Record companies?

Thanks
DessieB

 

Originally by Eddie-M (Official NowTV Team)

 

Hi @Anonymous User

This would come down to legal notices Now TV have received and therefore have had to remove the
fuction due to some Customers using Plex to watch Pirated Content. So the Dev Mode has been
disabled to prevent Pirated content in the future which in turn has disabled Plex which again can be
used to access Content which can be seen as illegal. This is the steps we found nessecerry to take to
prevent this from happening. If others have not done this then we cannot speak for them we feel this
was the best step to take.


Cheers

 

Originally by DessieB

 

Hi Eddie,

So are you suggesting that Apple, Amazon, Roku and Google have not received similar legal notices, or
that they have received similar notices but have chosen to ignore them?

DessieB

 

Originally by Eddie-M (Official NowTV Team):

 

No at all @Anonymous User


I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. I am telling you what Now TV have received and what we have
done to rectify it if other companies have recieved the same notices then i'm sure they are taking the
Steps nessecerry to rectify that however we at Now TV are not privy to that information and therefore
cannot discuss what other companies intend to do if anything or if they have recieved the same
notices we can only discuss what Now TV have recieved and what we have done to ��x it. At the end of
the day Plex is not an offical app in the App store via the Now TV box therefore Now TV have no
legal obligation to provide that app and therefore can remove any means of accessing it.


Cheers

 

Originally by MattPenfold:

 

Eddie-M wrote:
Hi @Anonymous User


Thanks for raising your concerns to us here on the Community, In relation to what a Now TV agent
has said about Plex being illegal your correct it is not however the content available to use with in
Plex and other Apps like it can be seen as illegal and therefore puts Now TV in a difficult position
with Studios and Record companies and therefore the decision was made to remove the Dev Mode
which enabled the ability to install Plex via Sideloading due to Plex not being available in the Now
TV app store. Also if apps are being used via the Now T v box that are not available in the App store
provided and are installed by other means i.e Sideloading then Now TV have the right to remove
that functionallity if we wish to do so. If your complaint relates to official apps in the app store
available via the Now TV box then please do raise those concerns with us and we will do what we
can can to rectify them. However if it only relates to an app not offically available on the Now TV box
then we cannot do anything further and there would be no legal basis for us to put that function
back as it is against our terms of use. I hope this clears it up for you and if you have any further
questions please do ask away and we will do our best to answer or at least get the answer for you.


Thanks
Eddie
So why was I told Plex is illegal Eddie? You admit is untrue, yet that did not stop your colleagues from
say Plex is illegal software. What do you intend to do about their lack of honesty?

You claim you have the right to remove side-loaded apps, but you failed to offer any evidence you have
that right. Since you offered no evidence I can dismiss your claim you have that rigjt as baseless. You
have a choice. You can either offer that evidence, or accept you lied to me.

 

Originally by MattPenfold: (Post 1 on page 50)

 

Eddie,
You have admitted that Not TV altered my box. The law, in the form of the Computer Misuse Act 1990 is
clear in this regard. Unless you can show Now TV were authorized to access my box and make
alterations NOW TV have committed a criminal offence under Section 35 of that act. It is possible that
Now TV could be considered to have committed an offence under Section 37 , if there was intend to
impair use of the computer . A Section 35 offence carries a maximum sentence of 2 years
imprisonment, and a Section 37 offence carries a maximum of 10 years. Both offences can also carry
an unlimited Ƭne.
So you can only claim that Now TV have not comitted an offence under either Section 35 or 37 if you
can show you had authorisation to access my Now TV box. If you cannot do so, you will be admitting
that NOW TV commited a criminal offence.

 

Originally by WuffleBonk: (Post 2 on page 50)

 

@Anonymous User from NowTV, I think there's an age old addidge here that relates to Digging holes and knowing
when to stop 😄

From what I can see, your just not doing ANYTHING to help here, except making up what looks like
semi plausible explanations and hoping that we'll all buy into it.

I have to tip my hat and give you points for trying though. As myself and my co-conspiritors have
recently discovered, we can actually use the official, authourized apps that ARE in the NowTV store,
and pre installed on the box, INCLUDING YOUR VERY OWN NOWTV APP , to play ANY CONTENT we
want, including pirated content should we so wish, I wonder what the recording industry and
music/movie producers that sent NowTV those cease and desist plex letters would do if they found out
about that fact???

I think you'd be forced to remove your own apps, and every official app from the box, IF what your
trying to spin to us all, is actually true....

 

 

 

 

 

188 REPLIES 188
SeeMoreDigital
Legend 5
Legend 5

@Anonymous User wrote:

My last post got deleted before anyone from Now TV told me how I could get hold of Tibbin.  


Your 'last post' did not get deleted @Anonymous User, it got moved into this topic!

Anonymous User
Not applicable

But what does dishonesty of Now TV staff have to do with this topic? 

But tell you what, why not have a go a defending a Now TV staff member lying to me. What excuse can you come up with? 

One thing, when moving a post it is customary to note that is what has happened in some way. It is basic manners.  Did you mean to suggest your manners are a bit lacking? 

 

Anonymous User
Not applicable

This is the third time I posted about this. The two previous comments have been deleted. I cannot understand why I am following the advice of a NOW TV manager by the name of Gagan. He says there are three ways to contact Now TV. By online chat, by email and via the forums. 

I have tried email. My email has not been replied to in over two weeks. Not even an update on what is happening. So clearly email does not work. I have also tried the online chat. I did that yesterday, when I was promised I would get a reply to my email today. No reply has been received. I used online chat again today, and am speaking to a manager as the moment. 

All I want is a reply to me email. It is not a lot to ask, yet it when I asked that I get a replied Now TV staff are not honest with me. Even their manager accepts I was misled, and will be getting the person to apologise.  What does it take to get someone at Now TV do give an answer? 

Anonymous User
Not applicable

copywrite protection would be easy if they could update firmware in any device containing illegal material by a simple update but as we all know, you have to get permission from the device owner to update software that wipes out anything that may be classed as illegal. now tv or should i say the sky corporation seem to think otherwise.
Anonymous User
Not applicable

i call it hacking. to change software / hardware without the owners consent.
Anonymous User
Not applicable

from what i understand the hole no contract thing is purly related to the entertainment, movies , kids and sports passess where the operating system is not effected by the no contract agreement

Anonymous User
Not applicable

Your all a bunch of sad idiots...

Quoting this law and that legislation you found on Google.

Now TV is a sky company and sky is ultimately owned by 20th Century Fox. It is one of the biggest media corporations in the world. It will employ an entire building of Lawers and legal experts.

They didn't break any laws.

By saying you didnt provide consent it's utter ######, in the T's and C's (that you had to agree to to use the box...) they are allowed to update the software and firmware (owned by them btw, you have no right to th software at all, they simply let you use it...) and they did so to remove developer mode as it was directly screwing over their business model, IE; cheap roku boxes that does simple things. Why on earth would they let you have developer mode that would allow a user to do the exact same things to the box for £15 (I got mine for £8 from cex...) that you could do on a £70+ box. People forget they are a company, they exist to make money pure and simple. They have no obligation to improve your life in anyway. And if you think any differently your just wrong.

At the end of the day, they still provide excellent content and service for a very reasonable price.

If you want the operating system and a good box go get a roku box. It'll cost you more upfront sure, and if you spend enough time on Google I'm sure you can figure out Kodi and a good build and never pay for media again, that's your choice. I used to do that, but since I started respecting the content I enjoy I don't mind paying. And if your still not satisfied (because Roku still own the OS and can do with as they please) go get yourself rasberry Pi and learn to code, build your own OS and device, aswell as media apps and then you can sue all you like if someone touches it because it will be yours.

Anonymous User
Not applicable

The problem is the terms and conditions are somewhat troublesome for Sky. Firstly it is far from clear that you can put in the terms and conditions that you are allowed to just update the device whenever you want. My understanding is that the update must be explicitly authorised otherwise it is not legal.  Agreeing in the T&C that you agree to any update that Sky wish to push is unlikely to meet the requirement for explicit authorisation. Any lawyer will tell you that in general T&C are full of unenforceable terms; that is companies seem to delight on inserting illegal conditions even when told explicity by lawyers that they are not legal.

 

The second problem is that Sky in their advertising make bold claims about a lack of contract. It's all over their advertising for NowTV. Now legally speaking that it a load of ######. Sky offered a service, you accepted the offer and they took your money, we have offer, consideration and acceptance and hence a legally binding contract. However Sky have made such a huge play about the lack of contract, that the terms and conditions are likely void as terms and conditions are only enforceable as contracts and Sky keep saying there is NO contract. That is you are going be squirming in front of the judge explaining why you are telling the world there is no contract, and then relying on the contract to avoid falling foul of the Computer Misuse Act. Either there is a contract and you are fine in terms of updating the device but are making false claims in your advertising in which case the contract is quite possibly void anyway and have broken the law on advertisments or there is no contract and you broke the Computer Misuse Act. That's the proverbial rock and a hard place as whatever way you cut it the broke the law.

 

I will also note at this juncture that the update has also broken the composite video output on the white box for at least some older CRT's. This unlike developer mode was an advertised feature of the white box, I still had/have a white box for that reason that is no useless. I have had to pick up a Roku 1 on eBay as a result. As such the unauthorised update has done more than just remove sideloading. Specifically they have interfered with the normal operation of the system to its detriment as it became unsuable on my CRT television.

 

Finally while Sky may have a team of lawyers I very much doubt they have inhouse lawyers for this area of law. They clearly have some inhouse lawyers for channel clearance, copyright and IP through to employment, competition and regulatory law. However inhouse criminal lawyers on computer misuse is highly unlikely. I would also be very surprised if they consulted their external lawyers before this change was made, most likely because they would have been advised not to remove sideloading.

Anonymous User
Not applicable

I don't care what they do to their software but I object to their removing Plex which I installed; that's mine.

 

I don't need NowTV. Does anyone know a way of getting down to a box that runs Plex?

Anonymous User
Not applicable

This thread is completely pointless dev mode isn't coming back get over it, if you want to get angry then be angry at the greedy criminal element that were selling plex servers on the boxes, they are the reason you can't use plex on now tv boxes.